It's all about Vancouver/Whistler

[JenniferR]

I would think that it is not easy for a government to balance the demands of labour, industry and protect the environment without one or the other suffering. Even the Greens perhaps would find out that they cannot totally be environmentally responsible and not run into public demand for jobs, commerce demanding their profits at environmental expense.

The NDP at least tried to protect the environment, unlike the Liberals. They did pass important environmental regulations, including Forest Practices Code, Mineral Exploration Code, and the Zero AOX Law. Even under Clark, who was not known as an environmentaly friendly Premier, they set aside land for Parks and established a Green Economy Secretariat to advance environmental job creation and investment.

The Liberals have no environmental accountability at all, have rolled back important regulations and have gutted the public service that was in charge of the environment.

I agree that Clayoquot Sound should have been protected. All of it, not just a third. But I also wonder what demands and pressure influenced this decision at the time.

[Trobin]

Originally posted by JenniferR
I would think that it is not easy for a government to balance the demands of labour, industry and protect the environment without one or the other suffering.

When you're right you're right. I doubt that any party could come up with a compromise acceptable to everybody.

[OPINIONATED]

Originally posted by JenniferR


I agree that Clayoquot Sound should have been protected. All of it, not just a third. But I also wonder what demands and pressure influenced this decision at the time.

I can tell you Jennifer - we're on the Island.

It was almost a blood-bath in the Clayoquot - it was constant Protests by Greens & enviornmentalists - who in turn were threatening the safety/lives of Loggers working there - by SPIKING Trees with long metal spikes, buried deep into trees - meaning if a chainsaw hit one, the Logger could be killed. These spikes were found all over the place in Trees.

There was wholesale arrests & Court injunctions, month after month, as the Loggers lost their wages & livelihoods also.

The costs of this were huge in dollars alone, Courts, Police & otherwise.

The human toll is still being counted, years after - with the families who lost their Jobs, the Communities they lived in [economy] and the spin-off from that. That I also know - as I know many who were laid-off for those Job losses in B.C.

Many of the Protestors in the Clayoquot were from the U.S.A. - many had never been around a Tree in their life, nor did they CARE about trees - this I know, I had a young shirt-tailed relative, defiant, pregnant, in her teens - laying on the Logging roads at Clayoquot. This person has long gone, never to return to the Clayoquot. There's never been a mention by this person years later - of ANY concern for the Clayoquot - life has gone on for them, quite nicely.

What's interesting to me now - is that with the Liberals now in power - Weyerheuser who bought out McMillan & Bloedel [cheap in U.S. $$] - has over the past month sought & got approval to remove [for starters] 800 Acres from their NOW Private lands on the west coast of the Island.

Prime Vancouver Island West coast land.

Water-front on the West Coast can sell for millions per lot.

It's now going to their [Weyco] Real Estate Division - for sub-dividing and development.

Where's all the protests on that one ?

[RickW]

Originally posted by Trip
None of them care about the environment

To paraphrase Ulysses S. Grant: "The only good tree is a dead tree"

I think that abut sums it up for both the Libs and NDP in this province. To imagine a tree simply existing is such a waste......

[Trip]

Originally posted by RickW
To paraphrase Ulysses S. Grant: "The only good tree is a dead tree"

I think that abut sums it up for both the Libs and NDP in this province. To imagine a tree simply existing is such a waste......

What's really funny is when the NDP supporters talk about helping the environment. At least the Liberals don't profess to be enviromentalists.

[OPINIONATED]

Actually I don't find anything funny in any of the whole situation.

[JenniferR]

I would not put everything the NDP did down. They did put in place environmental protection policies. The AOX Law passed in l992 is the strongest pulp mill legislation in the world. They put policies in place that protected streams and wildlife.

It is not really fair not to give them credit for what they did. To say that they did nothing is wrong.

If you really feel that way, then how about giving us some idea of what the Greens propose?

I am not against environmental protection by the way, I feel very strongly about the environment and wildlife. It sickens me to see what man is doing to this planet! It is not just the government, but people themselves who don't care.

[RickW]

Originally posted by JenniferR
I would not put everything the NDP did down. They did put in place environmental protection policies. The AOX Law passed in l992 is the strongest pulp mill legislation in the world. They put policies in place that protected streams and wildlife.

It is not really fair not to give them credit for what they did. To say that they did nothing is wrong.

If you really feel that way, then how about giving us some idea of what the Greens propose?

I am not against environmental protection by the way, I feel very strongly about the environment and wildlife. It sickens me to see what man is doing to this planet! It is not just the government, but people themselves who don't care.

It's just that, with the two political parties we are talking about, when it comes right down to saving a tree or financing another trip to Didneyworld, Disney wins very time. The natural resources we have should be used strictly as seed money to get bunsinesses started, but should NEVER be used as busnesses in themselves. If you spend your capital, you WILL go broke. If the NDP stated that jobs in the forest industry began only AFTER the tree was logged, and not beginning with the tree itself, then they would have more credibility with me. But what happens (inevitably) is that forestry towns will shut down, becuae people rely on the relatively easy money that logging brings in. Then there is pressure to log MORE, and it becomes a treadmill where you have to go faster and faster just to stay in place.

[Trip]

Originally posted by RickW
Then there is pressure to log MORE, and it becomes a treadmill where you have to go faster and faster just to stay in place.

and then the logs are gone, and everyone is out of work. But the NDP stop there, they ignore the fact that not only are all the people out of work, but all the diversity of wildlife that used to live in those forests is now gone, or dead. As they kill the animals, diversity drops, and soon the tapestry of life begins to unravel, yes, we are at the top, but eventually we to will die as the last of the thread comes undone.

[JenniferR]

I am beginning to wonder about you. I asked you what the Greens would do about the environment, but you seem to not want to discuss anything except to bash the NDP.

Maybe you are not even an environmentalist? Not a word about what the Lieberals are doing, what the Greens would do, just what the NDP should have done. Are you afraid that they will pick up too many seats in the next election? A total turn off Trip!

[arteess]

Recently, the Powell River Peak newspaper, Liberal supporters to the core, published an editorial suggesting that the Green Party and the N.D.P. would combine before the next election.In the next edition, Adrienne Carr wrote a passionate letter to the editor stating that this could NEVER happen as 'We are a free enterprise party". A check on the Peak's archives will confirm this. It is obvious to anyone who wishes to look that the Greens are a bunch of yuppy pals of Campbell who accepted advertising funds from the same corporations as the Campbell gang. They may even head up these corporations.

[OPINIONATED]

Originally posted by arteess
Recently, the Powell River Peak newspaper, Liberal supporters to the core, published an editorial suggesting that the Green Party and the N.D.P. would combine before the next election.In the next edition, Adrienne Carr wrote a passionate letter to the editor stating that this could NEVER happen as 'We are a free enterprise party". A check on the Peak's archives will confirm this. It is obvious to anyone who wishes to look that the Greens are a bunch of yuppy pals of Campbell who accepted advertising funds from the same corporations as the Campbell gang. They may even head up these corporations.

Arteess - would you have a link to this Newspaper item you can post pls ?

This again confirms her position made on CKNW - which I re-post again from the David Schreck website - at -

http://www.strategicthoughts.com

Quote -

-Green Deal

"A merger, coalition is not in the cards. Fundamentally the Green Party and the NDP are very different parties. We have some similar platforms, and in those areas it would be great to work together and I look forward to working with the new leader of the NDP on issues of mutual concern. But the fundamental differences will keep us as separate parties."

Adrianne Carr, BC Green Party Leader, CKNW, June 3, 2003 (2 PM)
End quote.

Sounds definite enough to me.

JENNIFER - Wonder no more, I think Trip has tripped, the past government is Trips justification - for the last 3 years of Liberals in B.C.

Not forgetting JLK's post on here - the Liberal supporter himself -
'Go Greens Go".

Says it all to me.

[Trip]

Originally posted by JenniferR

Maybe you are not even an environmentalist? Not a word about what the Lieberals are doing, what the Greens would do, just what the NDP should have done. Are you afraid that they will pick up too many seats in the next election? A total turn off Trip!

Oh, but I am. The reason the I am not coming down to hard on the Liberals is because they are honest about not being an enviromental party. The NDP say they do care, well, in my book, they have yet to prove it. I want to see the Greens get seats in the legislature, I don't care which 'main stream party' loses seats, as long as the Greens get some.

I want to see the forests protected, and replanted, I want to see the fish farms shut down permanently. I want to see BC bring in air pollution laws with teeth. Aircare is a bloody joke. How many cars are out there blowing blue just because they are old? That's crap, and the NDP were the ones that brough that garbage in. If they care so damn much, then take every car off the road that blows blue or black. I don't care if the person needs it, they can take a bus if they can't afford to maintain their car properly. I want to see BC bring in pollution laws at least on par with California. Hybrid cars are available now, make driving that type of car the law. Hydrogen powered, electrical, even the CNG cars are better then gasoline.

There, how's that for a start?

[JenniferR]

you don't come down hard on the Lieberals because they don't state they are an environmental party? So it excuses all the harm they are doing? Interesting!!! I would think that a true environmentalist would be horrified by what they are doing, not making excuses for them!!!!!!

I also don't understand why you are bitter about Aircare under the NDP, the LIeberals have scrapped it have they not? Is not an attempt to do something better than nothing at all?

About hydrogen powered cars, well Trip I do think that not every citizen in B.C. can all of a sudden afford to scrap his old one and buy a new car. It is the ideal way to go, but it will take many years before everyone is able to drive one. I noticed some of the movie stars were driving them to the Oscars, unfortunately we don't all make that kind of money.

What do you mean about replanting the forests? That has been done all along.

[OPINIONATED]

Jennifer - I note Trip suddenly appeared on here, digging up old, old posts, from when this once was a forum.

I have some thoughts of my own about that, and the rather 'baiting' position taken.

[RickW]

Originally posted by Trip
Oh, but I am. The reason the I am not coming down to hard on the Liberals is because they are honest about not being an enviromental party. The NDP say they do care, well, in my book, they have yet to prove it. I want to see the Greens get seats in the legislature, I don't care which 'main stream party' loses seats, as long as the Greens get some.

I want to see the forests protected, and replanted, I want to see the fish farms shut down permanently. I want to see BC bring in air pollution laws with teeth. Aircare is a bloody joke. How many cars are out there blowing blue just because they are old? That's crap, and the NDP were the ones that brough that garbage in. If they care so damn much, then take every car off the road that blows blue or black. I don't care if the person needs it, they can take a bus if they can't afford to maintain their car properly. I want to see BC bring in pollution laws at least on par with California. Hybrid cars are available now, make driving that type of car the law. Hydrogen powered, electrical, even the CNG cars are better then gasoline.

There, how's that for a start?

They don't get it, Trip. I voted NDP all my life, but their environmental policies are an "optional" plank. But I repeat myself......

[JenniferR]

I have thoughts about that too. And it is too bad, because I really am concerned about the environment and I don't think that this is the reason for his being on this board. It very much goes along with what Artees posted.

[OPINIONATED]

Meanwhile the Liberals are hauling more Raw Logs than any time prior, done away with the Moratorium on Fish Farms,

Done away with Environmental officers, Depts & staff.

It's all on record, as the list grows.

As JLK said - "Go Greens Go"

[Bill Forsyth]

If you want something to get done you better be willing to do it yourself!
Here' something you can bang your head against! BC Northcoast Offshore Drilling:
>>Subject: Oil and Gas Hearings
>>
>>The public hearing dates have been announced and I've attached them
below.
>>
>>If you'd like more information on the procedure involved, please go
to http://www.moratoriumpublicreview.ca
>>
>>As well, we will be putting more info on our website
>>(www.georgiastrait.org) and you can get lots of info at the David
Suzuki
>>Foundation website as well.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Ramona
>>
>>Session Locations and Timing (as of 1 March 2004)
>>
>>Queen Charlotte City
>>Queen Charlotte Community Centre
>>Monday, 5 April 2004, 7 p.m. until 9 p.m.
>>Tuesday, 6 April 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, and 2 p.m. until 5 p.m.
>>
>>Masset
>>Village of Masset Community Hall
>>Wednesday, 7 April 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, and 2 p.m. until 5 p.m.
>>Lax Kw'alaams (Port Simpson) not confirmed
>>
>>Prince Rupert
>>Crest Hotel
>>Thursday 15 April 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, 2 p.m. until 5 p.m., and 7
p.m. until 9.p.m.
>>Friday, 16 April 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, and 2 p.m. until 5 p.m.
>>
>>Kitkatla not confirmed
>
>>Kitimat
>>Kitimat Rod and Gun Club
>>Tuesday, 20 April 2004, 7 p.m. until 9 p.m.
>>Wednesday, 21 April 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, and 2 p.m. until 5 p.m.
>>
>>Bella Coola
>>Location to be confirmed
>>Wednesday, 5 May 2004, 7 p.m. until 9 p.m.
>>Thursday, 6 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, 2 p.m. until 5 p.m.
>>
>>Alert Bay
>>Location and timing to be confirmed
>>Friday, 7 May 2004
>>
>>Port Hardy
>>Civic Centre
>>Monday, 10 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, 2 p.m. until 5 p.m., and 7
p.m. until 9 p.m.
Tuesday, 11 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon
>>
>>Vancouver
>>Sheraton Wall Centre
>>Tuesday, 11 May 2004, 7 p.m. until 9 p.m.
>>Wednesday, 12 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, 2 p.m. until 5 p.m., and 7
p.m.
>>until 9 p.m.
>>Thursday, 13 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon

>>Victoria
>>Location to be announced
>>Thursday, 13 May 2004, 7 p.m. until 9.p.m.
>>Friday, 14 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon, 2 p.m. until 5 p.m., and 7
p.m. until 9 p.m.
>>Saturday, 15 May 2004, 9 a.m. until noon

[Trip]

Originally posted by RickW
their environmental policies are an "optional" plank.

Exactly, and that's the problem. It's an option, and nothing else. The liberals are willing to kill the fish. The NDP allowed more & more raw logs to be exported, and the liberals continue that policy, a policy that the NDP chose not to cancel. Yeah, they really care about the environment, don't they?