It's all about Vancouver/Whistler

[RickW]

Originally posted by Trip
they really care about the environment, don't they?

Oh, yeah!

[OPINIONATED]

Originally posted by OPINIONATED
I can tell you Jennifer - we're on the Island.

It was almost a blood-bath in the Clayoquot - it was constant Protests by Greens & enviornmentalists - who in turn were threatening the safety/lives of Loggers working there - by SPIKING Trees with long metal spikes, buried deep into trees - meaning if a chainsaw hit one, the Logger could be killed. These spikes were found all over the place in Trees.

There was wholesale arrests & Court injunctions, month after month, as the Loggers lost their wages & livelihoods also.

The costs of this were huge in dollars alone, Courts, Police & otherwise.

The human toll is still being counted, years after - with the families who lost their Jobs, the Communities they lived in [economy] and the spin-off from that. That I also know - as I know many who were laid-off for those Job losses in B.C.

Many of the Protestors in the Clayoquot were from the U.S.A. - many had never been around a Tree in their life, nor did they CARE about trees - this I know, I had a young shirt-tailed relative, defiant, pregnant, in her teens - laying on the Logging roads at Clayoquot. This person has long gone, never to return to the Clayoquot. There's never been a mention by this person years later - of ANY concern for the Clayoquot - life has gone on for them, quite nicely.

What's interesting to me now - is that with the Liberals now in power - Weyerheuser who bought out McMillan & Bloedel [cheap in U.S. $$] - has over the past month sought & got approval to remove [for starters] 800 Acres from their NOW Private lands on the west coast of the Island.

Prime Vancouver Island West coast land.

Water-front on the West Coast can sell for millions per lot.

It's now going to their [Weyco] Real Estate Division - for sub-dividing and development.

Where's all the protests on that one ?

Seen no Green answers for this predicament.

[RickW]

Originally posted by OPINIONATED
Seen no Green answers for this predicament.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Had the Greens had any say previously, there would have been no threat of wholesale logging in the Clayoquot in the first place. But the NDP would rather see dead trees, just so some people can go to Disneyworld (or some such "essential" service).

[Trip]

What did that American say?

The tree of freedom must sometimes be watered with the blood of patriots

or something like that.

[OPINIONATED]

Originally posted by RickW
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Had the Greens had any say previously, there would have been no threat of wholesale logging in the Clayoquot in the first place. But the NDP would rather see dead trees, just so some people can go to Disneyworld (or some such "essential" service).

Small consolation for all those who have lost their Jobs there anyway - there were many, and they're still feeling the affects of losing their employment. We knew/know some at our house.

But that wouldn't affect you.

That's the problem with the Greens, I see most of their Executive live in Vancouver, or lower mainland.

The Resource communities & their economies [which also contain thousands of people], pay the price.

Talk comes cheap for some.

Frankly I'm getting tired of your BS with the NDP - you must be a Liberal.

[RickW]

Tut, tut, Opie! The senario for "one horse" towns was set by much earlier governments, which relied on natural resources to fuel an economy. Alberni once boasted the highest wages in North America. But because those making these wages thought it would last forever, they went broke when things fell apart, because they didn't invest their humongous salaries. So who's fault is it exactly?

Nowe, just 'cause the Greens DO NOT advocate clearcutting, and just 'cause loggers may have to retrain themselves to do something else, you would condemn them? You actually WANT the whole province to be one big clearcut?

And just what would the NDP do about all this, in a substantial way? That they haven't had the chance to do when they had power?

[JenniferR]

If I had my way there would be no logging, nature would be left as is. But I use paper products and live in a wooden house. So I am a hypocrite to feel that way. I think that we will always have to have logging, but in a responsible way. Did not the NDP try to be as responsible as possible? They set aside land for parks and made laws that protected streams and wildlife. Unlike the Lieberals!! As long as man demands wood products there will be logging. As far as I know every government that has been in power has replanted the cut areas.

How would the Green Party deal with this? A total ban on logging is not possible Rick. Even if every logger were retrained in other fields and employed, we use wood and have nothing to replace this with.

What policies, practices and methods do the Greens have in place? It is great to have ideals, but they also have to be practical and feasible. I hate logging, I hate it with all my heart. But I use paper, other wood products and live in a house. So we are all adding to the logging going on, every one of us.

[RickW]

Originally posted by JenniferR
If I had my way there would be no logging, nature would be left as is. But I use paper products and live in a wooden house.

Hemp makes excellent paper, Jennifer. Much better quality than trees. Hemp also makes beams that are as strong as steel. And hemp regrows every year, with minimal maintenance. Henry Ford made a "hempmobile" in 1936, in which the body and chassi were made from hemp, as it ran on hemp oil for fuel. But hemp and marijuana were made illegal in 1937, cheifly because newspaper magnate Randolph Hearst feared that the increasing use of hemp would cut into his timber profits.

There are alternatives to timber that would keep people employed. Also, the Greens would BAN timber cutting - it would BAN indescriminate waste of timber.

Yes, the NDP set aside humongous amopunts of parklands. But they diud not set aside the source of cash needed to maintain the parks, and the Libs are using that as a reason to get rid of some of them.

[Trip]

How about concrete for building and hemp for paper. Concrete is mainly gravel and limestone.

[JenniferR]

I don't know about other places, but up here in the North acres are cleared by just brushing the trees down. So where would you get the extra land to grow hemp as quite a bit would be needed? The land under cultivation now is used for food crops, animal feed and livestock and grazing. That is how we cleared our land, acres just pushed down, piled and burned. That is worse than clearcut because the burning piles spewed smoke for weeks and months.

[JenniferR]

but in concrete houses is there not still a lot of wood used? I am not sure about the interior walls being studs, but also the cabinets, furniture, etc. If you have to make all furniture out of plastic, which uses oil, then would this not depleat the supply and cause more and more exploration and thus disrupting the environment?

[RickW]

Originally posted by JenniferR
So where would you get the extra land to grow hemp as quite a bit would be needed?

In BC, there are loads of clearcuts in where no one wants to replant. In the Fraser valley, there are loads of agricultural lands that are only under cultivation thanks to government subsidies, and wouldn't be if these subsidies were cut out. On the priaries, it has been demonstrateds that most of the Great Plains region has been "a bust" from a settlement point of view, and there are serious discussions about letting it revert t it natural state. Many parts of the prairies are well suited for hemp.

In BC, quite a bit of the interior, where the cattle are raised, are only viable with government subsidies and tax breaks, and are well-suited for hemp crops, which would need no handouts.

The list goes on.

[RickW]

Originally posted by Trip
How about concrete for building and hemp for paper. Concrete is mainly gravel and limestone.

The manufacture of concrete is quite energy-intensive, and creates a lot of greenhouse gases.

[RickW]

Originally posted by JenniferR
but in concrete houses is there not still a lot of wood used? I am not sure about the interior walls being studs, but also the cabinets, furniture, etc. If you have to make all furniture out of plastic, which uses oil, then would this not depleat the supply and cause more and more exploration and thus disrupting the environment?

Warehouse spaces nowadays pour the walls flat on the ground in many cases and hoist them into position. The formwork is minimal that way.

Plastic furniture could be recycled almost endlessly, and all the furnture in the world wouldn't amount to how much oil is being consumed by cars and industry.

[sammy]

Rick,

Do you have any information as to what hemp farms are in operation now? Are there very many?

I found this link for trials in the BC Peace: http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/croplive/pl...crp/i-hemp.htm

but am wondering how any current operations might be doing. Thanks.

[RickW]

Originally posted by sammy
Rick,

Do you have any information as to what hemp farms are in operation now? Are there very many?

http://www.taima.org/en/fibre.htm

This might be informative, sammy. But the links to hemp farming in BC do not work, and I can't readily find this kind of information. Given our attorney general's attitude on pot though, I can anticipate research being somewhat difficult. But I will try.......

[RickW]

http://www.hemphasis.com/hch.htm

This might be of some sort of help

[Trip]

Originally posted by RickW
The manufacture of concrete is quite energy-intensive, and creates a lot of greenhouse gases.

It all depends on what type of energy generation is used. If we used wave power, wind-power, solar-power to generate the electricity, the emissions would be minimal. Set up a cement-making plant with a wind farm, and it would'nt need any outside power supplies.

[RickW]

Originally posted by Trip
It all depends on what type of energy generation is used. If we used wave power, wind-power, solar-power to generate the electricity, the emissions would be minimal. Set up a cement-making plant with a wind farm, and it would'nt need any outside power supplies.

True enough......

[OPINIONATED]

Those concrete buildings you're talking about still need steel rebar.

Which is mined from the ground.

So what does that leave us to build with, that people could afford - mud huts ?

Also comes from the earth.